we can do that. part of the way is to not give tax breaks to companies shipping jobs overseas. you can take a deduction for moving a planned overseas. most americans would say, "that does not make sense." if we take a balanced approach, that allows us to help young people make sure they can afford to go to college. the teacher i met in las vegas, who describes to me how she has 42 kids and her class, the first two weeks, she has some of them sitting on the floor until they got reassigned. they're using textbooks that are 10 years old. that is not a recipe for growth. that is not how america was built, but it reflects choices. we will have to make decisions. if we are asking for no revenue, that means we have to

get rid of a bunch of stuff, and the magnitude of the tax cuts you're talking about would end up and severe hardship for people. it will not help us grow. when you talk about shifting medicaid to states, we are talking about a potential 30% cut. that may not seem like a big deal when it is numbers on a sheet of paper. if we are talking about a family with an autistic kid that depends on that medicaid, that is a big problem. governors are creative. they are not created enough to make up for 30% of revenue on something like medicaid. some people end up not getting help. >> we have gone on a lot of topics.

>> come back to medicaid. >> let's go through them one by one. the department of energy has said the tax break for all companies is $2.2 billion per year. in one year, you provided $90 billion in breaks to the green energy world. i like green energy. that is about 50 years' worth of what oil and gas. receives. this $2.8 billion goes to smaller companies. if we get that tax rate down to 2%, that money is on the table. do not forget -- you put $90 billion into solar and wind solyndra and tesla. as my friend would say -- you

know how to pick the losers. this is not the kind of policy you want to have to get american energy secure. you said you get a deduction for taking plant overseas. i have been in business for 25 years. i have no idea what you are talking about. the idea you get a break for shipping jobs overseas is not the case. i would like to take the medicaid dollars to go to state and tell them they will get what they got last year plus inflation plus 1%. you will manage to care for the poor in the way you think best. as a governor, when this idea was floated by tommy thompson, the governors said, "please, let us do that. we can care for our own poor in more effective ways than having

the federal government tell us how to care for our poor." one of the magnificent things about this country is the idea that states are the laboratories of democracy. do not let the government telling states what kind of training and medicare they have to have. if the state gets in trouble, we can step in to help them. the right approach is one that relies on the brilliance of our people and states, not the federal government. >> we are still on the economy but another part of it. this is segment 3, the economy -- entitlements. the first question goes to you, mr. president. do you see a major difference between the two of you on it? -- on social security? >> we have a somewhat similar position. it is socially sound. it will have to be tweaked.

the basic structure is sound. i want to talk about the values behind social security and medicare. medicare is the big driver of our deficit. my grandmother helped to raise me. my grandfather died a while back. my grandmother died three days before i was elected president. she was independent. she worked her way up. she only had a high school allocation. -- education. she ended up being the vice- president of a local bank. she ended up living along by choice. -- living alone by choice. the reasonshe could be independent because of social security and medicare. she worked all of her life, and understood there was basic floor under which she could not go. the name "entitlements" implies

some sense of dependency on the part of these people. these are people who have worked hard. like my grandmother and there are millions of people out there who are counting on us. my approach is to say how do we strengthen the system of the long term? in medicare, what we did was we said we are going to have to bring down the costs if we are going to deal with our long-term deficits. to do that, let's look at where some of the money is going. $716 billion we were able to save by no longer overpaying insurance companies and making sure we are not overpaying providers and using that money we were able to lower prescription drug costs by an average of $600. we were able to make a significant dent in providing them the kind of preventive care that will save money throughout the system. the way for us to deal with medicare is to lower health- care costs.

when it comes to social security, you do not need a major structural change to make sure it is there for the future. >> we will follow up on this. you have two minutes on social security and entitlements. programs. any time we talk about entitlements, people become concerned. neither the president nor i are proposing any changes for any current retirees or near- retirees either to social to carry or medicare. -- social security or medicare. if you are 60 or older, you do not need to listen any further. for younger people, we need to talk about what changes will occur. when i said the president is not proposing changes, he is for medicare. for medicare, for current retirees, he is cutting.

$716 billion from the program. by not overpaying hospitals and providers, going to them and setting regard going to reduce the rates. everyone will get a lower rate is not just going after places where there is abuse. that is saying we are cutting the rates. hospitals and nursing homes say they will not take any medicare patients. 50% of doctors say they will not take more medicare patients. we have 4 million people on medicare advantage that will lose medicare advantage because of those $716 billion in cuts. how can you cut medicare for some of the 16 billion career recipients? you say you'll get a better prescription program. they know that is not a good trade. that is $1 for every $15 you cut. i want to take that money you have cut and put it back into medicare. we can include a prescription program.

the idea of cutting $716 billion from medicare to balance the additional cost of obamacare is a mistake. with regards to young people, i have proposals to make sure medicare and social security are there for them. >> it is important for governor romney to present this plan that will only affect people in the future. it will turn medicare into a voucher program. it is called premium support. it is understood to be a voucher program. >> you do not support that? >> i do not. >> that is for future people. >> if you are 54 years old, you may want to listen. this will affect you. the idea was originally presented by congressman ryan, your running mate. we would get a voucher to

seniors. -- we would give a venture to seniors. they could go out in the private -- wycombe -- we would give a voucher to seniors and they could go out in the private marketplace and buy their own health insurance. the problem is that because the voucher would not necessarily keep up with health-care inflation, this would cost the average senior about $16,000 per -- $6,000 per year. year, but governor romney has said is he will maintain traditional medicare alongside it. there is still a problem. those insurance companies are clever about figuring out who are the younger and healthier seniors. they recruit them, leaving the older, sicker seniors in medicare. every health-care economist as said overtime, the traditional medicare system will collapse. you have people, like my grandmother, at the mercy of the private insurance system when they are most in need of decent health care. i do not think vouchers are the right way to go.

this is not only my opinion. aarp thinks the savings we obtained from medicare bolstered the system, lengthened the medicare trust fund by eight years. benefits were not affected. if you repeal obamacare, those seniors will pay $600 more in prescriptions. there will have to pay co-pays. for basic checkups that can keep them healthier. the primary beneficiary of that repeal our insurance companies that are estimated to gain billions of dollars back when they are not making seniors healthier. that is not the right approach when it comes to making sure that medicare is stronger over the long term. >> we will talk about health care in a moment. do you support the voucher

system, governor? >> i support no change for current retirees and near- retirees to medicare. the president supports taking money out of that program. >> what about the vouchers? >>for people coming along that are young, i would allow them to choose the current medicare program or the private plan. it is their choice. they will have at least two plans that will be at no cost to them. they do not have to pay additional money. they will have at least two plans. if the government can be as efficient as the private sector and offer lower premiums, people will be happy to get traditional micare or a private plan. i would rather have a private plan. i would not like the government to tell me what kind of health care i would get.

people make their own choice. to save medicare, we have to have the benefits high for those that are low income. for higher income people, we will have to lower the benefits. make sure the benefit is there fothe long term. the idea came not from paul ryan, but from the co-author of the bill in the senate. it came from bill clinton's chief of staff. this says let's see if we can get competition into the medicare world so people can get the choice of different plans at lower cost, better policy is a quality. i believe in competition. >> every study has shown matters here -- medicare has the word administrative cost. -- medicare has lower administrative costs than regular insurance has. this is why seniors are generally happy with it. private insurers have to make a profit. that is what they do. you have higher administrative costs plus profit on top of that.

if you were going to save any money to what governor romney is proposing, what has to happen is that the money has to come from somewhere. when you move to a voucher system, you are putting seniors at the mercy of those insurance companies. over time, if traditional medicare has decayed, they are stuck. this is why aarp has said your plan would begin medicare substantially. -- would weaken medicare substantially. that is why they were supportive of the approach we took. we do have to lower the cost of health care. >> we will talk about that in a minute. >> overall. >> let's get back to medicare. if that is the case, it will

always be the best part people can purchase. -- the best product that people can purchase. the private sector is typically able to provide a better product at a lower cost. >> can you agree that voters have a choice on medicare and? >> absolutely. >> to finish on the economy, what is your view about the level of federal regulation of the economy right now? is there too much? mr. president, should there be more? this is a two-minute segment to start. >> regulation is essential. you cannot have a free market work if you do not have regulation. i need to know the regulations. you cannot have people opening of things in their garage and making loans. you have to have regulations regulation can become excessive.

>> is it excessive now? where? >> in some places, with some of the legislation passed during the president's term, it has become excessive. it has hurt the economy. for example, dodd-frank designates banks too big to fail. this is an enormous boom for new york banks. there have been 122 community and small banks have close since dodd-frank. >> you want to repeal dodd- frank? >> i would repel and replace it. you can i get rid of all

regulation. -- you cannot get rid of all regulation. there are some parts that make all of the sense in the world. in a transparency, the average leverage limits. thist's let him respond to specific one -- dodd-frank. >> the reason we have been in such an enormous economic crisis was prompted by a reckless behavior across the board. it was not just on wall street. you had loan officers giving loans and mortgages that should not have been given because the people did not qualify. people were borrowing money to buy houses they cannot afford. credit agencies were stamping these as a1 grade investments. you have banks making money, turning out products that the bankers and not understand. an order to make big profits,

knowing that it made the system vulnerable. what did we do? we stepped in. we have the toughest reforms on wall street since the 1930's. banks have to raise their capital requirements. do not engage in risky behavior. make sure you have a living will so we can know how you will wind things down and make a bad bet so you do not have other taxpayer bailouts. we made sure all of the help we provided the banks was paid back with interest. governor romney has said he wants to repeal dodd-frank. i appreciate it. we have agreement that a market place to work has to have regulation. he said he had wanted to repeal dodd-frank. does anyone think the big

problem we had is that there was too much oversight and regulation of wall street? if you do, governor romney is your candidate. that is not what i believe. >> that is not the facts. we have to have regulation on wall street. i would not designate five banks as too big to fail and give them a blank check. that is one of the unintended consequences of dodd-frank. we need to get rid of that provision. regional and small banks are getting hurt. you say we were giving mortgages to people who were not qualified. that is one of the reasons for the great financial calamity. dodd-frank says we need to have qualified mortgages or there are big penalties. they never defined what a qualified mortgage is. it has been two years.

we do not know what a qualified mortgage is. banks are reluctant to give loans. it did not anticipate putting in place the kinds of regulations you have to have. sometimes they did not come off with clear regulation. i had to make sure that we do not hurt the functioning of our marketplace. i want to bring back housing and get good jobs. >> we have another clear difference between the two of you. let's move to health care, where there is a clear difference. that has to do with the affordable care act, or obamacare. it is a two-minute segment. two minutes each. governor romney, you want it repealed. why? >> it comes to my experience.

i was in new hampshire. a woman said, "i cannot afford insurance or myself or my son." i met a couple in wisconsin who said we are thinking about dropping their insurance. small businesses are dropping insurance because they cannot afford it. the cost is prohibitive. we have to deal with cost. when you look at obamacare, the congressional budget office has said it will cost $2,500 per year more than traditional insurance. it is adding to costs. when the present ran for office, -- when the president ran for office, he said by this year he would have brought down the cost of insurance per family. it has gone up. it is expensive. expensive things hurt families. it cut $716 billion from medicare to pay for it. i want to put that money back into medicare. it put in place an unelected board that will tell people

what kind of treatments they will have. i do not like that. there was a survey done of small businesses done. it said, what has been the effect of obamacare and you're hiring plans? three-quarters said it makes them less likely to hire. i do not know how the president can come into office facing 23 million out of work, rising unemployment, and economic crisis and spend his energy fighting for obamacare instead of jobs for the american people. it has killed jobs. the best course for health care is to do what we did in my state -- craft a plan at the state level that fits the needs of the states. then focus on cost down for people. getting the cost down forrather than raising it. people>> the argument against repeal. >> four years ago, i was traveling around and having the same conversations.

it was not just that small businesses were having costs skyrocket, and they could not get affordable coverage or that this was the biggest driver of our federal deficit, it was families who were worried about going bankrupt if they got sick. millions of families. they had a pre-existing condition. they may not be able to get coverage. if they did have coverage, insurance companies may impose an arbitrary limit. they are paying their premiums. someone gets sick. they do not have enough money to pay the bills because the insurance companies said they have hit the limit. we did work on this alongside working on jobs. this is part of making sure that middle-class families are secure. let me tell you what obamacare did -- if you have health

insurance, it does not mean a government takeover. you keep your own insurance and your doctor. insurance companies cannot church your round. -- jerk you around. they cannot impose arbitrary lifetime limits. they have to let you keep your kid on your insurance plan until they're 26 years old. it says that he will have to get a rebate if insurance companies are spending more on administrative costs and profits than they are with actual care. if you do not have health insurance, we are setting up a group plan that allows you to benefit from group rates that are 18% lower than if you are trying to get insurance on the individual markets. the last point out would make -- -- the last point i would make -- i had five seconds before you interrupted.

i would make -- >> your minute is up. >> i think i have five seconds before you interrupted me. [laughter] the irony is we have seen this model work well in massachusetts. gov. romney did a good thing to working with democrats in the state to set up what is essentially the identical model. as a consequence people are covered there. it has not destroyed jobs. as a consequence we have a system where we have the opportunity to start bringing down costs instead of leaving millions of people out in the cold. >> year five seconds when a long way. until the president what you -- tell the president correctly wide - why you think what he just said is wrong. >> first of all, i like the way we did it in massachusetts. i like the way we had republicans and democrats come

together and work together. what you did was push through a plan without a single republican vote. when massachusetts did something quite extraordinarily, elected a republican senator to stop obamacare, you pushed it through anyway. instead of bring america together and having the discussion on this important topicshe pushed through something that, you and nancy pelosi and harry reid thought was the best answer and drove it through. what we did, 87% democrat, we worked together. 200 legislators, only two voted against it. we did not raise taxes. he raised the by $1 trillion. we did not cut medicare. we did not have medicare, but we did not cut it by $700 billion. we did not put together a board telling people what treatments they can receive. we put people in a position -- we did not put people in a position where they would lose the insurance they have an wanted.

the cbo says up to 20 million people will leave -- lose their insurance. a study said 30% of them are anticipating dropping people from coverage. for those reasons, for the tax, medicare, this board, and for people losing insurance, this is why the american people do not want obamacare. not do this. the republicans put out a bipartisan plan that was swept aside. i think something this big and important has to be done on a bipartisan basis. we have to have a president i can reach across the aisle with input from both parties. >> gov. romney says this has to be done on a bipartisan basis. this was a republican idea. gov. romney at the beginning of the debate said, what we did in massachusetts could be a model for the nation.

i agree the democratic legislators and massachusetts might have given advice to republicans in congress on how to cooperate. we use the same advisers, and they say it is the same plan. when the gov. romney talked about this a board for example, this unelected board that was created, this is a group of health care experts, doctors, to figure out how we can reduce the cost of care in the system over all. there are two ways of dealing with the health care crisis. one is to simply leave a whole lot of people uninsured and let them fend for themselves. let businesses figure out how long the bacon accept premiums -- how long they can pay premiums until they just give up. we can figure out how we can make the cost of care more effective. there are ways of doing it.

at a cleveland clinic, one of the best health care systems in the world, they actually provide great care cheaper than average. the reason they do is because they do some smart things. they say if a patient is coming in, let's get all the doctors together at once into one test instead of having the patient run around with 10 tests. let's make sure we are providing preventive care so we are catching the onset of something like diabetes. let's pay providers on the basis of performance as opposed to on the basis of how many procedures they engage in. what this board does is basically identify best practices. let's use the purchasing power of medicare and medicaid to help institutionalize all of the good things that we do. the fact of the matter is that when obamacare is fully

implemented, we are going to be in a position to show that costs are going down. over the last two years, health care premiums have gone up -- it is true -- but they have gone up slower than any time in the last 50 years. we are already seeing progress. people out there with insurance are already getting a rebate. governor mitt romney says we should replace it. we can replace it with something. he has not describe what exactly we would replace it with other than saying we will leave it to the states. the fact of the matter is, some of the prescriptions he has offered like letting me by insurance across state lines, there is no indication that will help somebody who has a pre-existing condition to be able to finally buy insurance. it is estimated that by repealing obamacare you are looking at 50 million people losing health insurance at a time it is vitally important.

>> let's let the governor explain what you would do if obamacare is repealed. how would you replace it? >> pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan. young people are able to stay on their family plan. that is already offered in the private marketplace. you do not need the government -- government to mandate that. the key task we have in health care is to get the cost down so it is more affordable for families. he has a model for doing that, an unelected board who will decide what kind of treatment you ought to have a. in my opinion, the government is not effective in bringing down the cost of almost anything. as a matter of fact, free people and free enterprise is try to find a way to do things together are more effective at bringing down the cost that the government ever will be. your example of the cleveland

clinic is exactly my point. this is the private market. these are enterprises competing with each other and learning how to do better jobs. i used to consult to hospitals and health-care providers. i was astonished at the creativity and innovation that exists in the american people. in order to bring the cost of health care down, we do not need a board of the 15 people telling us what kind of treatments we should have. we should have insurance plans, hospitals, doctors on targets so that they have an incentive, performance pay for doing an excellent job for keeping costs down. that is happening. mayo clinic is doing it. the cleveland clinic and others. the right answer is not to have the federal government take over health care and start mandating to the providers across america telling a patient and a doctor what kind of

treatment they can have. that is the wrong way to go. the private market and individual responsibility always works best. >> let me point out first of all this board we are talking about cannot make decisions about what treatments are given here that is explicitly prohibited in the lot. -- in law. let's go back to what gov. romney indicated. under his plan, he would be able to cover people with pre- existing conditions. actually governor, that is not what your plan does. your plan duplicates what is already the law. if you are on health insurance for three months, then you can end up getting continuous coverage. insurance company cannot deny you if it has been under 90 days. that is already the law. that does not help millions of people out there with pre- existing conditions.

there is a reason why governor mitt romney said of the plan he did in the massachusetts. -- set up a plan he did in massachusetts. it was the largest expansion of private insurance. what it does say is insurers -- you have to take everybody. that also means -- when gov. romney says he will replace it with something but cannot detail how it will be replaced -- and the reason he said of the system -- he set up a system because there is not a better way of dealing with pre-existing conditions. it just reminds me -- he says he will close deductions and loopholes for his tax plan. that's how it will be paid forwe do not know the details. buthe says that he is going to replace dodd-frank, wall street reform, but we do not know exactly which ones. he will not tell us. he now says he will replace obamacare and insurer as all the good things and it will be in there and you do not have to

worry. at some point the american people have to ask themselves, is the reason gov. romney is keeping all of these plans to replace secret because they are too good? is it because somehow middle- class families will benefit too much from them? the reason is because when we reform wall street, when we tackle the problem of pre- existing conditions, these are tough problems and we have to make choices. the choices we have made have been ones that ultimately benefited middle class families. >> we are going to move to -- >> i have to respond to that. my experience as a governor is that if i come in and lay down a piece of legislation and say it is my way or the highway, i do not get a lot done. what i do is the same way that tip o'neill and ronald reagan work together years ago. he laid out the principles that he was going to foster.

he said he would lower tax rates. he said he was going to broaden the base. you said the same thing. those are my principles. i want to bring down the tax burden on middle income families. i will work together with congress to say what are the various ways we can bring down deductions. one way will be to have a single number. make up a number -- $50,000. anybody can have deductions up to that amount. that number disappears for high income people. one could follow bowles simspn as a model. and take the deduction by deduction and make a difference is that way. there are other ways to accomplish the objective that i have it. simplify the code, broaden the base, and create incentives for growth. with regards to health care, you obviously studied up on my plan. in fact, i do have a plan that deals with people with pre- existing conditions.

that's part of my health care plan towhat we did in massachusetts is. a model for the nation state by state. i have said that at that time. the federal government taking over health care for the entire nation and it was king aside the -- and the whiskey and aside the --whisking aside the 10th amendment that gives states the rights for these kind of things is not the course for america to have a stronger, more vibrant economy. >> that is a terrific segue to our next segment -- the role of government. the role of government. give us your approach on this, mr. president. do you believe that the -- is there a fundamental difference between the two of you on how you viewed the mission of the federal government? >> i definitely think there are differences. the first role is to keep the american people safe. that is the most basic function. as commander in chief, that is

something that i have worked on and thought about every single day i have been in the oval office. but i also believe that government has the capacity -- the federal government has the capacity to help open up opportunity entry ladders of opportunity and to create frameworks' where the american people can succeed. the genius of america is the free enterprise and freedom and the fact that people can go out there and start a business, work on an idea, make their own decisions. as abraham lincoln understood, there are also some things we do better together. in the middle of the civil war, abraham lincoln said, let's help to finance the transcontinental railroad. let's start the national academy of sciences. let's start land grant colleges. we want to give these gateways of opportunities to all

americans. if all americans are getting an opportunity, we will all be better off. that does not restrict freedom, that enhances it. what i have tried to do as president is to apply the same principles. when it comes to education, what i have said is we have to reform schools that are not working. we do something called race to the top. we have said states -- we will give you more money if you initiate reforms. we have had 46 states who have made a real difference. what i have also said is, let's hire another 100,000 math and science teachers to make sure we maintain a technological lead and people are skilled and able to succeed. hard-pressed states right now cannot do that. we have seen layoffs of hundreds of thousands of teachers over the last several years. gov. romney does not think we need more teachers, i do. i think that is the kind of

investment or the federal government can help. it can make a difference. as a consequence we will have a better trained work force, and that will create jobs because companies want to locate in places where there is a skilled workforce. >> two minutes, governor. , on the role of government. >> i love great schools. massachusetts, our schools are ranked no. one of 50 states. the key to grade schools, is great teachers. i reject the idea i do not believe in great teachers. every state should make that decision on their own. the role of government -- look behind us. the constitution and the declaration of independence. the role of governmentis to promote and protect the principles of those documents first. life and liberty -- we have a responsibility to protect the lives of people. i do not believe in cutting the military. i want to maintain the strength of the military. the line that says we are

endowed by our creator with our rights -- we must maintain our commitment to religious tolerance and freedom in this country. it also says we are endowed by our creator with the right to pursue happiness as we choose. i interpret that as making sure those people who are less fortunate and cannot care for a themselves are cared for by one another. we are a nation that believes we are all children of the same god and we care for those who have difficulties. those who are elderly, those who are disabled, we care for them. we look for discovery and innovation and all these things to pursue the pursuit of happiness for our citizens. we believe in maintaining for individuals the right to pursue their dreams. not to have the government substitute itself for the rights of free individuals. what we are seeing right now is in my view a trickle-down government approach which has government thinking they can do a better job every people

pursuing their dreams. is not working. the proof of that is not everyone is and work here we have gone to 47 million people in food stamps. 50% of college graduates this year cannot find work. we know the path regarding is not working. it is temper a new path. -- it is time for a new path. >> education. does the federal government have a responsibility for education? >> the primary responsibility is at the state and local level. i agree with arne duncan. the federal government can play an important role. some ideas he has put forward on race to the top. some of them i agree with and congratulate him on pursuing that. the federal government can get state and local schools.

to do a better job. i wanted the kids who are getting federal dollars from title 1 -- disabled kids or lower income kids, i went and to be able to go to the kids at -- to the school of their choice. i would have them follow the child and let the parent and child decide where to send their student. as far as federal funds. >> how do you see the federal government's responsibility to improve the quality of education? >> it has a significant role to play. we have worked with republican and democratic governors to initiate major reforms. they are having an impact right now. this is where budgets matter. budgets reflect choices. when gov. romney indicates that he wants to cut taxes and potentially benefit people like

me and him, to pay for it we have to initiate significant cuts in federal support for education, that makes a difference. his running mate congressman ryan put forward a budget that reflects many of the principles gov. romney has talked about. it was not very detailed. this seems to be a trend. what it did do -- if you extrapolate it how much money we are talking about, you are looking at cutting education by 20%. when it comes to community colleges, we are seeing great work done out there all over the country because we have the opportunity to train people for jobs that exist right now. one thing i suspect we probably agree on is getting businesses to work with community colleges. >> do you agree? >> let me finish my point.

they are partnering -- they are designing training programs and people who are going through them know there is a job waiting for them if they complete it. there requires some federal support. let me say one final example. when it comes to making college affordable, whether it is two- year or four-year, one thing i did is we were spending $60 million to banks and lenders as middlemen for the student loan program, even though they were guaranteed. there was no risk for the banks and lenders, but they were taking billions out of the system. why not cut out the middleman? we have been able to provide millions of more students assistance, lower or keep a low interest rates on student loans, this is an example of where our priorities make a difference. i genuinely believe gov. romney

cares about education. when he tells a student that you should borrow money from your parents to go to college, that indicates the degree to which there may not be as much of a focus on the fact that folks like myself, folks like michele, kids who probably attended the university of denver did not have that option. for us to make sure they have the opportunity and can walk through the door, that is vitally important not just to the kids, it is how we will grow the economy over the long term. >> we are running out of time. response to that. >>-- respnd to that. >> i have no plan to cut education funding and grants for people going to college. i am not planning on making changes there. you make a good point. the place you put your money makes it a clear indication on where your heart is.

you put $90 million into green jobs. -- $90 billion into green jungles. i am all in favor of green -- $90 billion energy. to greenthat would have hired 2 million teachers. $90 billion. these businesses may have gone out of business -- a number of them happen to be owned by people who are contributors to your campaigns. the right course for a merit oppose the government -- america's government is not to pick winners and losers, not taking over the health care system that has existed in this country for a long time and has produced the best health records in the world, the right answer is to say how do we make the private sector more efficient? how do we make schools more competitive? i suggest we grade our schools so parents can take their kid to a school that is more successful.

i did not want to cut our commitment to education, i want to make it more efficient. i have had that experience. i do not just talking about it, i have been there. massachusetts schools are ranked no. 1 in the nation. this is because i care about education for all of our kids. >> we barely have in three minutes left. i will not raid the two of you -- i will not degrade the two of you -- i will not degrade the to view and say your answers have been too long. >> you have done a great job. >> the role of government and governing, we only have three minutes left before we go to the closing statements. i want to ask finally -- remember we have three minutes total time. many of the legislative

functions of the federal government are in a state of paralysis as a result of partisan gridlock. if elected -- if reelected in your case, what will you do about that? >> i had a great experience of being elected in a state where my legislator -- legislature was 87% democrat. that means we had to work together to get things done. we cut taxes -- >> what will you do as president? >> i will sit down on day one -- actually the day i get elected my state. we met every monday and talked about the challenges in our state in that case. we have to work on a collaborative basis, not because we will compromise our principles, but because there is common ground. the reason i am in this race is because there are people

hurting. we face this deficit that could crush future generations. there are developments a round the world that are of real concern. republicans and democrats both loved america, but we need to have leadership in washington that will bring people together and get the job done and could not care less if it is a republican or democrat. i have done it before, and i will do it again. >> i think gov. romney will have a busy first day because he is going to repeal obamacare which will not be popular among democrats if you are sitting down with them. my philosophy has been, i will take ideas from anybody as long as they are advancing the cause of making middle-class families stronger and giving ladders of opportunity. that is how we cut off -- that is how we cut taxes for the middle-class. that is how we cut spending that was not advancing the cause.

that is how we signed a free- trade agreements into law. that is how we repealed don't ask don't tell.l that is how we ended the war in iraq, and that is how we will wind down the war in afghanistan. that is how we went after al- qaeda and osama bin laden. we have seen progress even under republican control of the house of representatives. part of being principled and part of being a leader is being able to describe exactly what it is you intend to do, not just saying "i'll sit down." occasionally you have to say no to people both in your own party and in the other party. yes, have we had some fights between me and the republicans when they fought against us reining in the excess against wall street? absolutely. that was a fight that needed to be had. about whether americans had

more security with their health insurance, that was a fight we needed to have. part of leadership and governing is both saying what it is you are for and also being able to say no to some things. when it comes to his own party in the course of this campaign, he has not displayed the willingness to say no to some of the more extreme parts of his party. >> that brings us to closing statements. gov. romney, you elected to go last. you have two minutes, mr. president. >> i want to thank you, and i want to thank gov. romney because this was a terrific debate. i want to thank the university of denver. four years ago we were going through a major crisis. yet, my faith in the american future is undiminished.

the reason is because of its people. because of a woman i met in north carolina who decided at 55 to go back to school because she wanted to inspire her daughter and now she has a new job. because of a company in minnesota willing to give up salaries and perks for the executives to make sure they did not lay off workers during a recession. the auto workers that you need in toledo or detroit take such pride in building the best cars in the world not just because of a paycheck, but because it gives them a sense of pride that they are helping to build america. the question now is how do we build on the strengths? everything i have tried to do everything i am proposing for the next four years as far as improving education or developing american energy or making sure we are closing loopholes for companies shipping jobs overseas and focusing on small businesses create jobs in the united states, or closing deficit in a responsible way for a lot of us

to invest in the future, all of those things are designed to make sure that the american people, their genius, their determination is channeled and they have an opportunity to succeed. everybody is getting a fair shot. everybody is playing by the same rules. four years ago i said i am not a perfect man and i will not be a perfect president. that is probably a promise gov. romney things i kept. i promised i would fight every single day on behalf of the american people. i have kept that promise. if you vote for me, i promise i will fight just as hard in the second term. >> thank you. thank you, mr. president. thank you for tuning in. this is an important election, and i am concerned about america. i am concerned about the

direction of america has been taking. i know this is bigger than any election about the two of us as individuals. is bigger than our respective parties. it is about what kind of america do you want to have for yourself and your children. there are two different paths we are speaking about this evening and over the course of the next month we will have two other debates. we will talk about the two paths. they lead in different directions. it is not just looking at our words, you can look at the record. there is no question if the president were to be reelected, he would continue to see a middle-class squeeze it. we have had 43 straight months with unemployment over 8%. i will help create 12 million new jobs in this country with rising incomes. if the president is reelected, obamacare will be fully

installed. in my view that will make a whole different way of life for people who counted on the insurance plan the had in the past. he was the health premiums go up by $2,500 per family. -- you will see health premiums go up by $2,500 per family. we want each state to craft their own programs and we will focus on getting the cost of health care down. if the president is reelected, you will see a $716 billion cut to medicare. you will have hospitals and providers no longer accepting medicare patience. i will restore the $716 billion to medicare. the president is reelected, you will see dramatic cuts to the military. i will not cut our commitment to our military. i will keep america strong, and did the middle class working again. thank you. >> thank you governor and mr.

president. the next debate will be the vice-presidential even to in ky. for now from the university of denver, thank you and good night. [cheers and applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [applause] [cheers and applause]

." c-span.org [no audio] [no audio] [no audio]

[no audio] [cheers and applause] . >> president obama stays in number for a campaign rally. our road to the white house coverage begins live at